Originally posted on 6 December 2018
It’s easy to see why Tanja Nagel is a sought-after member of Supervisory Boards at different institutions in the Netherlands: since graduating from Utrecht University and undergoing management training at Amrobank in the mid-80s, Nagel’s career trajectory through the financial sector has been consistent and impactful, culminating in her role as CEO of Theodoor Gilissen Bankiers N.V. from 2009 until June 2017. In the 17 months since she left a job she “truly loved doing”, her vast experience as a CEO has seen Nagel join the Supervisory Boards of EY LLP Netherlands and PNO Consultants, and she recently became a member of KAS BANK’s Supervisory Board. A passionate believer in the value of women role-modelling and supporting those who follow in their footsteps, Nagel spoke to ECWO about her progression through a field traditionally dominated by men, the importance of committing to both a career and a family and the choices of generations to come.
You believe wholeheartedly in the importance of role-models for young women entering the financial sector. Why is this?
When I entered the financial world, there were no other women in the part of the banking sector that I found myself in. This meant that I had to become ‘one of the guys’ because I thought if you want to be part of a group, you have to adapt yourself to what is common in that group. At the time, there were no women role-models and so no-one to show me that I could be myself, while still progressing my career. Of course, as you notch up the years, you do gain a deeper understanding of this, but I would have appreciated having insight into it in the early stages of my career. This is why it’s very important to me to play that role for women in the financial sector who are in their 30s and who need to be supported in being themselves and not adapting who they are to others.
Enabling environments
Looking back on your career, is there one thing that stands out in terms of your progression towards the position of CEO at TGB?
I had excellent management training at Amrobank but it was in the early years of my 23 years at F. van Lanschot Bankiers N.V. that I was lucky enough to encounter a boss, Peter Zwart, who gave me the trust and space to do what I thought was important for the bank. It didn’t always work and sometimes mistakes were made, but it meant that I learnt the real benefits of an enabling environment early on in my career. I then made sure that I put that into practice when I moved into the position of CEO at TGB in 2009. It was a special moment for me when Peter asked me to become a member of the Supervisory Board at his company, PNO Consultants in September last year.
Trust, courage and justice
You’ve mentioned trust as a key part of how you were empowered in your career. How important has this value been in your professional life?
Trust is one of the three core values that I learned from my grandmother who founded the Dutch baked goods brand, Baukje Bakproducten, and from whom I first learnt the ins-and-outs of running a company. Courage and justice are the other two and, to this day, I run everything that I do against these three. As far as trust goes, while I was progressing in my career and in my position as CEO, I learnt that to engender trust, there are three elements that have to be visible from your side: authenticity, logic and empathy. If you are not going to be yourself in everything that you say and do, if what you say isn’t logical and if you haven’t thought about who is listening to you, then go home.
You also have very strong feelings on how to ensure gender diversity in the workplace, based on your own experience of both raising a family and making your mark in the financial sector. Can you elaborate on this?
One of my responsibilities now is to ensure that people know what they are doing in terms of their organisations if they don’t anticipate that half of the world consists of women. Research has shown that teams that are gender diverse deliver better results and better results is something that men in organisations are always interested in. I could see the benefits of gender diversity during my time as CEO of TGB. But it’s not always easy to get to that diversity, especially when you’re looking for experienced women to sit on Supervisory or Executive Boards. They are surely there, although maybe not enough yet—and men are not always able to spot them! A significant factor is the belief on the part of too many women that you cannot have both a career and a family. It is really hard to witness how much talent is lost from an organisation when a whole group stops working at the age of 33 or 35 when their first child arrives. I still can’t understand why it is necessary for women to step away from their career to raise children while their husbands continue to work. Why is it necessary to put one career above another? Why can’t the starting point be ensuring both parents work and play a role in the family? Women achieve the best at university and there is no reason why they shouldn’t continue in that way in their careers.
Family and work do mix
What advice would you give to young women following in your footsteps?
Don’t quit your job when you start a family. Research by McKinsey has shown that there are many reasons for this happening, including pressure from families and the judgement of other mothers at school. Dutch women are working 27 hours a week on average and this doesn’t make you economically independent, neither does working just three days a week because then your free time is more than your working time and that is not a good balance for career progression. I speak from experience. I took maternity leave twice to have my children and twice I was promoted while I was away, because of the obvious commitment I had to remaining in my career. It wasn’t always easy, fulfilling both roles. My husband was a doctor at a hospital in Den Haag and I worked in the south, 120km away. I would leave at 6am and return at 8pm but I made sure all my free time was spent with the children. I often say to the younger generation of women that children will be in your home maybe 20 years of your life, but you might live to 100. Why then would you say goodbye to the career part of your life when you start a family?
So there are many challenges that remain, for you personally and in your profession?
It might be 2018 but, yes, there are. If you look at the Dutch Female Board Index you can see that it went down last year. In its measurement of those listed companies have more than 30 women in the combination of the Supervisory Board and Board of Directors, this is not good news. However, there is definitely a growing number of women on Supervisory Boards and this is exciting because of the role we play in appointing women to the Board of Directors who can in turn help change the culture within organisations to reflect more diversity. In my own capacity I do what I can to impact the entry and continued presence and career growth of women in the financial sector. Together with the other women who are in top positions in the business, we network in ways that allow us to be role-models, to make sure the younger women come along with us. It’s also important to influence the men who are making appointments and so I make sure I put energy in that direction too. Personally, I make choices that support this – for instance if I am asked to join a Board, it must be one in which I will not be the only woman and where the members are in favour of bringing more women on board.
A different point-of-view
You faced an enormous personal challenge with the sudden death of your husband nearly seven years ago. How have you dealt with this?
Losing my husband so suddenly was a shock and it took the children and me a while to adjust our way of life. It does, however, give you a different point of view and the run to the top just doesn’t seem that important anymore. With the help of some distance, it has also been possible to starting seeing the collateral beauty of death. No one would wish for it to happen but it’s ok to see there are positives in the way that your personal journey now unfolds.
